Howard,

Thanks. I am now clear on this aspect. Your calculation shows a much reduced aoverall amount payable at year 9 although it is still substantial but at the same time I note with interest what you mention about tax exemptions.
I take it that you are the first to renew because you were one of the first to apply initially?
Regards,

Bertie

Bertie -

As I understand it my application in June 2006 was about the 8th to be received by DIMA (now DIAC).

It went through very smoothly and may have overtaken others, so I imagine that my visa issue was earlier than 8th in all.

I am told that some of the earliest have transferred to other visas (e.g. Contributory Parent) or have decided to leave Australia.

Doe any 405 holders know what happens when the main applicant dies and his spouses' pension benefits are therefore reduced. Is there any dispenstation or must the surviving spouse still be rquired to maintain the minimum AUD 50,000 annual income level?....and the DI investment level?

The qualifying requirements for the 405 are for the issue of the visa, irrespective of whether there is one applicant or two.

When the visa is issued to a couple, the main applicant has the letter P (primary) after the visa number, and the spouse has the letter S (secondary) after the visa number.

So theoretically it is one visa, issued to two people.

So (theoretically at least) if one person dies, the survivor still has to meet the visa requirements at the next renewal.

DIAC might have some level of discretion - but I imagine that you would have had to have the visa for some considerable time before they could apply any compassion to any decision about whether to issue a visa.

It would not be safe to assume that such compassion would apply to any individual case - assuming, that is, that DIAC are in fact allowed to apply any compassion at all.

Alan - do you have any experience of this sort of thing on any other visas?

Hello Howard (and Bertie).

No, I haven't encountered the situation described - sorry.

Best regards.

Alan/Howard,

Thanks again. So it would be safer for us to assume that there would be no relaxation in such event.

Regards,

Bertie

Many thanks for posting the Senate discussion paper. Why does a 405 visa holder has to pay a Second Application Charge has remained a perplexing question to me, until I have seen that paper. The paper, however, leads to more questions e.g. having been here for more than 2 years on this visa, I just can't see how in the world would I be able to ever access aged care payable by tax payers when I don't even have a Medicare card? Would appreciate if anyone is able to shed further light on it.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard Snow:
I am afraid you thought wrongly.

The 2nd Visa Application Charge is designed specifically to provide a contribution towards aged care.

Have a look at the Senate discussion paper of 2004 at the following website -
http://www.aph.gov.au/SEnate/c...0405/dimia/a1-11.pdf

The discussion on the proposed 405 visa starts at page 24.

Have a look in particular at the paragraph numbered 17 (Issues with existing subclass 410 visa) and then at the paragraph numbered 24, which introduces the concept of the 2nd visa application charge to offset the possibole cost of some applicants accessing aged care facilities.

The rest of the document will give you useful background about the reasons for introducing the visa.

Hi there -

The critical thing here is that Temporary Residents ARE allowed access to aged care. It is on a means-tested basis, just as it is for Permanent Residents and Citizens.

I hope my friends at the 410 visa forum (BERIA) will excuse me if I post an extract from a comprehensive document that they produced on this subject nearly three years ago -

(Start Quote)
Temporary visa holders (410 visa holders included) are eligible for aged care services on a means-tested basis in just the same way as citizens and permanent residents! Eligibility for aged care services does not require proof of residency status, or entitlement to a Medicare card, but 410 visa holders are not generally entitled to any subsidies, reductions or other financial assistance for fees for which citizens and permanent residents may qualify.

Help, support and care are available to older people through a wide range of community care organisations, hospitals and aged care home facilities. Your local doctor is usually the starting point for providing specific information, and for referrals for assessments for services such as:
• community care
• short term respite (at home, in day care centres or in aged care homes)
• long term “low level” care homes (also sometimes called hostels)
• long term “high level” care homes (also called nursing homes) with more intensive nursing care facilities
(End quote)

405 visa holders are treated in exactly the same way as 410 visa holders in this respect.

It was because the Government realised that 410 holders could access this aged care that they stopped the 410 visa and introduced the 405 visa in July 2005.

However, don't forget that the Designated Investment that you have to make in order to obtain and then maintain a 405 visa will form part of your "means" for the means-test!

I must thank Howard for what is said here (and elsewhere) about the Subclass 405 visa. By now I think I know where I stand and a better way forward. I would humbly suggest that what is said is food for some serious thought when it comes to applying for or renewing the visa.

How long before expiry is it advisable to apply for renewal? What happens to the original designated investment, is it carried over as mine matures after the visa expires.
Thank you.

Can you advise how your DI matures after the visa expires? The DI lasts for 4 years, and is to be in place prior to visa grant.

The 405 visa then lasts for 4 years from grant.

Best regards.

quote:

Originally posted by Sutherland:
How long before expiry is it advisable to apply for renewal? What happens to the original designated investment, is it carried over as mine matures after the visa expires.
Thank you.

I am sure Howard explained this before but my understanding is that the DI is reduced by 50% when you renew for a further 4 years after the first visa but does not reduce any further for following on visas. If you are relying on the DI interest to substantiate the required annual income then the released 50% would need to be invested elsewhere to maintain the income level.

Regards,

Bertie

Yes, what happens in practice is that the DI matures. The 405 visaholder who is renewing then reinvests the lower amount to satisfy the requirement of the 405 renewal.

Best regards.

My visa was issued on 26th June and my DI was made before that but the maturity date on the certificate is 15th July nearly 3 weeks after my visa expires.

The situation that Sutherland is describing does happen.

Although the Designated Investment on my first 405 visa expired exactly four years after it was made, a different situation has arisen with the Designated Investment on my renewal.

Although the investment was made on 23 August 2010, it does not mature until 15 October 2014, which is about 5 weeks after my current 405 visa will expire.

WA State Treasury told me that they now issue Bonds which mature on 'consolidated' dates, so that they can group Bonds together and offer better interest rates on the money.

I contacted the DIAC Policy Office in Canberra to express concern, because on the face of it I would need to find another $250,000 to start a third Designated Investment before my visa expires, and subsequently get the second Designated Investment back a few weeks later.

Canberra were aware that WA and some other States were issuing Bonds which had a maturity date more than four years after their issue - but thought that they were usually within 4 years and 30 days. They were surprised to hear that mine amounted to 4 years and 57 days, and said that they would probably talk to WA Treasury about this.

However, they recognise that in some cases the Designated Investment will expire at a date later than the visa expires.

They said that DIAC would NOT expect a visa holder to have to find additional money to finance the new Designated Investment before the old one expired - and said that this would not be in keeping with the general view of how the visa operates.

She said that provided everything else was in place - and in particular that the applicant had received further State Endorsement (previously called Sponsorship), and had submitted a complete renewal application to DIAC before the old visa expires - then the Bridging Visa system would come into effect while waiting for the old Designated Investment to be rolled-over to the new one, and for the applicant to pay the Second Visa Application Charge.

When I had submitted my renewal paperwork to DIAC in Perth, they had acknowledged it and said that a Bridging Visa A was being automatically raised and would come into effect if the renewal process took me past the expiry date of the visa.

So Sutherland, there is no need to panic about this. But make sure that you have submitted everything to Perth a few weeks before your 405 is due to expire.

I see from your profile that you live in Dawesville. I am just up the road in Halls Head, so if you want to talk about the renewal process, give me a call (9535 7258).

Also I run an email circulation system for 405s, and we currently have about 25 couples on the list. If you want to join the list, just let me know. I sent out a note to the circulation back in September which described my renewal process, step by step. I was the very first 405 renewal anywhere in Australia, so DIAC and the WA State Treasury both had to work through the system with me as we went along.

Thanks Howard - the detailed reply is appreciated.

Best regards.