Has anyone renewed this visa or do they know if the 2nd charge is payable on renewal?

I haven't renewed yet (current visa expires September 2010), but YES - the second charge is payable on renewal.

Because the Rudd Government decided upon a 20% increase in visa charges this year, the 405 Second Visa Application Charge has gone up to $10,440 per person - in addition to the basic visa charge of $230.

When we first applied in June 2006 the corresponding rates were $8,000 per person plus $180.

The only compensation is that at the first renewal we can effectively recover $250,000 of our designated investment - and so can try to invest that at better terms than we might get if it was still locked into a fixed-interest Treasury Bond.

This 'refund' only happens at the first renewal - the balance of the designated investment ($250,000 if living in a Regional area or $500,000 if living in a Non-Regional area) is effectively locked in for life - or until we came to a decision to leave Australia, which is not something we are planning to do.

The last time we stayed near Perth we rented a house from someone who worked in Immi.gov.au
I queried the renewal charge and she stated that it was only the basic charge which would be payable !! She said that the high cost of the initial visa was to cover the admin costs, and that on renewal these could not be justified. I was under the impression that the very high fee had to be paid on renewal, but she thought that was wrong .... just an observation.
Howard, have you started the 405 group yet? We are still awaiting to sell our house in France.

Howard Snow informs me it has to be paid each time and this is the impression I get from immigration. They say the payment goes into a government pot for general welfare. for this reason we have decided to leave as we can't afford to pay this increasing amount every 4 years with no benefit.

If you have overseas source investment income I suggest that one very real benefit on offer to you is the complete exemption from the charge to tax on that income, so long as you structure your overseas investments correctly ...

Best regards.

Well that is very disappointing news. Obviously it will affect our decision making process. With the falling housing market here (France), the exchange rates, in general, going the wrong way for us, the rising prices in the housing market in Oz (Perth in particular) we can start to see a rock and a hard place! I do not think that there would be anything left to take advantage of the overseas investment tax breaks !!!

Hi Peter (cêpe) -

I haven't started up a 405 group as such. What I have offered to do is to act as a 'postbox' through which 405 visa holders can communicate with those 405s who notify me that they would like to be included in such exchanges of information and/or questions.

A number have agreed that we should do that, and have asked to be on the distribution list, but I have qualified my offer by saying that I do not want to become the nominated 'leader' of the group in the same way that there are a couple of people who run the 410 visa group BERIA, and have become the negotiators with Federal and State governments.

I would be very happy to contribute to any topic which was being discussed in the emails, but I do not want to be the 'front man' to go to the politicians, or send out letters on behalf of the group - particularly in cases where I am not personally in full support of any point which group members want to put forward.

Any lobbying I have done to date has been as an individual on the basis of my own personal views on the situation, and I am very comfortable doing that. I would not be so comfortable negotiating something put forward by others if I was not 100% behind it.

I hope you understand this point of view.

I have said this to the people who kicked off the idea in the first place, and I have heard from a couple who are happy with the concept, but until I hear that others are happy with this arrangement I am not proceeding.

All,

I hope to apply for a 405 visa later this year. If a "405 postbox" is created, I am certainly interested in being on the distribution.

I agree with Howard's concept.

Best regards,
Lewis

quote:

Originally posted by Howard Snow:
Hi Peter (cêpe) -

I haven't started up a 405 group as such. What I have offered to do is to act as a 'postbox' through which 405 visa holders can communicate with those 405s who notify me that they would like to be included in such exchanges of information and/or questions.

A number have agreed that we should do that, and have asked to be on the distribution list, but I have qualified my offer by saying that I do not want to become the nominated 'leader' of the group in the same way that there are a couple of people who run the 410 visa group BERIA, and have become the negotiators with Federal and State governments.

I would be very happy to contribute to any topic which was being discussed in the emails, but I do not want to be the 'front man' to go to the politicians, or send out letters on behalf of the group - particularly in cases where I am not personally in full support of any point which group members want to put forward.

Any lobbying I have done to date has been as an individual on the basis of my own personal views on the situation, and I am very comfortable doing that. I would not be so comfortable negotiating something put forward by others if I was not 100% behind it.

I hope you understand this point of view.

I have said this to the people who kicked off the idea in the first place, and I have heard from a couple who are happy with the concept, but until I hear that others are happy with this arrangement I am not proceeding.

Prompted by this latest discussion, I have now kicked off the 'postbox' arrangements for all those 405 visa holders (and potential holders) who are interested in communicating with each other.

Anyone who has expressed an interest so far will have heard from the Group mailbox.

Anyone else who has a 405 or is applying for one, and who would like to join the mailing list, should send me a private email from this forum.

(Alan Collett - I hope you are OK with me posting this on here!)

Not a problem, Howard.

Best regards.

Howard
We are living in Australind and we have 405 visa's and would very much like to join your mailing list

I am writing to Mika direct, adding her to our mailing list and telling her how it works.

This may be of interest to some on this thread.

Business Skills at the WA Government has confirmed that sponsorship of a subclass 165 visa applicant aged 55 or over can be progressed if the applicant undertakes to arrange a Designated Investment of A$1.5m, and has A$50k to facilitate settlement.

This would progress to a permanent subclass 893 visa after the DI has been in place for 4 years, and the visaholder has resided in WA for 2 years in the last 4.

This is not a strategy that is available to many, but is possibly an option for some who would look at a 405 visa - or who are 405 visaholders already.

It would also be somewhat cheaper in the context of DIAC Visa Application Charges.

Any who are interested should feel able to contact me directly:
http://www.gomatilda.com/contact.cfm#ourpeople

Best regards.

Can I please clarify renewal of 405 as my understanding so far on a couple basis:-

Say at year 9 you will have to have paid AUD10,625 plus 8,000 (Care allowance) = AUD 18,625 (x 2 = AUD37,250) and then at year 9 = 3 X = AUD 111,750 or say at present ER of AUD 0.61 =GBP 69,285.00. Am I correct? If so, I think I need to reconsider whether this 405 visa is worth it ?!

Bertie -

I think you are getting a little confused.

The $10,625 that you mention is the "care allowance" that you refer to. That started as $8000 per applicant when the visa was launched in 2005, but goes up each year with inflation.

Except that in the 2009/2010 Budget the Australian Federal Government put a blanket 20% increase on all but a few visa application charges. This year it went back to a normal inflation increase - and so it stands at $10,635 per person for applications received by DIAC after 1 July 2010.

What the visa will have cost you by year 9 is as follows (assuming two people on the application):-

Year 1 -
Initial Visa Application charge (per visa) $235.
Second Visa Application charge (per person) $10,625.

Total cost - $21,485.

Year 5 (1st renewal)
Same again, plus any effects of inflation

Total cost $21,485 plus 4 yrs inflation

Year 9 (2nd renewal)
Same again, plus any effects of inflation

Total cost $21,485, plus 8 years inflation.

Grand total for 9 years, $64,455 plus inflation.

Bear in mind that at each renewal there will be some other smaller charges, such as any charge made by the State renewing your Endorsement, and also for a Federal Police Check for each of you.

My wife and I have recently renewed our 405 - in fact we were the first-ever renewals, I am told.

We got our renewal application in on 30 June to avoid the annual increase in charges on 1 July - so our Second Visa Application Charge was only(!) $10,440 per person. But the total cost of renewing, including the WA State charge and Federal Police Checks, was $21,496.

It is not a cheap visa, but if you want to retire to Australia and cannot satisfy the 'balance of family' test, then you don't really have an option. (Other than the WA Business route which Alan mentioned above.)

But there are some plus points. As Temporary Residents we get very advantageous tax arrangements, so if you have a reasonable income from outside Australia, and some from Australia (e.g. bank interest) then the tax saving over Permanent Residence can very comfortably exceed the irritating cost of visa renewal.

Alan has reported on other similar web forums that a number of people choose to continue on the 405 despite satisfying the balance of family test and therefore qualifying for Contributory Parent visas - simply because of the significant tax savings.

Thanks but what about this AUD 8,000 old age care contributuion which you seem to have missed out in your projected calculation?

Bertie -

Look again at the second line of my posting.

The $10,625 is the 'old age care contribution'. It started at $8000 in 2005 but has increased each year so that it now stands at $10,625.

I did not miss it out of my calculations.

Sorry but I am missing something. I thought in addition to the 2nd visa amount there is another charge for old age care allowance of circa AUD8,000 each ?

I am afraid you thought wrongly.

The 2nd Visa Application Charge is designed specifically to provide a contribution towards aged care.

Have a look at the Senate discussion paper of 2004 at the following website -
http://www.aph.gov.au/SEnate/c...0405/dimia/a1-11.pdf

The discussion on the proposed 405 visa starts at page 24.

Have a look in particular at the paragraph numbered 17 (Issues with existing subclass 410 visa) and then at the paragraph numbered 24, which introduces the concept of the 2nd visa application charge to offset the possibole cost of some applicants accessing aged care facilities.

The rest of the document will give you useful background about the reasons for introducing the visa.

Sorry - small error in my last posting.

The discussion on the proposed 405 visa starts at page 23, not page 24.